Traci: Sarah, how are you? 

Sarah: I’m doing well, thank you for having me.

Traci: Thank you for coming in today. We are going to talk about your life and I want to hear up till your divorce, how you grew up just a little bit of background.

Sarah: Yeah so I grew up in an amazing home, I have three sisters and a really good relationship with my parents. My childhood was awesome, like honestly I don’t have anything to complain about. 

I was married for almost 10 years. So I met my ex-husband when I was in college, I met him through my sister, actually she knew him from high school, and honestly we didn’t date that long, it was like a few months and we were like “let’s get married!” Yeah, we got married like 6 months after that.

Traci: BYU style!

Sarah: Yeah, I mean it was not smart, you know 19, 20 year olds, you really just don’t know anything. You really don’t know anything.  My ex-husband was like my first boyfriend too, so I really just got caught up in the being in love thing.

We were married for 4 years before our daughter was born, and then we had a son that didn’t make it. I was only able to spend about 3o minutes holding him before he passed away, and it’s just awful, and he would be five now, and it’s still like, it still hurts so much.

Traci: It doesn’t just go away.

Sarah: Yeah, it doesn’t just go away.  But then a few years after that we had another daughter. So I have my two girls, and they are both amazing, I just love them and feel so lucky to have them.

Yeah, so the divorce – things were good for a while, but there was always something like, I always felt like there was something, like a part of him I just didn’t know I guess. But my ex was really good at just kind of getting me to not, what’s the word I’m trying to find, like just, like, not think it was a big deal.

Traci: Oh he could explain everything away.

Sarah: Yeah he really could explain away everything, and I accepted, you know, like he’s my husband, and you’ve got to trust your husband.  He was so convincing, you know? He made me feel like there was nothing ever for me to worry about, but I knew there was something off. I didn’t think it was like, something devastating, or like, huge, but there was just something, and it, you know it turned out to be way bigger, like than I ever imagined, you know? 

So yeah, things were from what I thought from my naive young self, I thought everything was ok, and that we were happy. It was years into the marriage,  probably after our son passed away, where things really started to change. He had a drinking problem that was a secret all this time and I really don’t think it was, I think it was more of an occasional thing up until that point. And then after that I think it probably just started turning into an actual addiction, it became like an actual problem, whereas before that was just a secret.

From there I felt like my ex-husband was changing, but it was just so slow, that I just didn’t see it. It was actually my family that noticed it and was trying to convince me, saying like we think your husband’s got a drinking problem, and I was like no you’re liars.

Traci: You defended him..

Sarah: Yeah, I defended him because I would go to him and he would just be like “I can’t even believe it,  I can’t believe that they would accuse me of that, like they owe me an apology!”

And my family was like, well more specifically my mom even said, “I’m not going to apologize for something that I know is true.” She’s like “I’ve smelled it on you, I’ve seen the way you’ve acted, we’re not dumb, and I’m not apologizing.” 

But yet he was still trying to just like trying to cover it up, and I would just believe him. He was kind of getting me to almost turn on my own family, and he definitely got me to turn on his parents. They were like “something is going on here, like what is it?” And I kind of look back on it now and I’m like how was I buying it when everybody around me was saying these things were true? But you know, you know he was so good at convincing me. 

And so bad, bad things just kept happening, like he got a DUI, and chalked it up to like “oh I was just depressed”. And I believed him. I had to drive myself to the hospital in labor because he didn’t have a driver’s license and I couldn’t tell anyone, you know? He made me feel like I couldn’t talk to anyone, so I was isolated, depressed, suicidal, and I was in this horrible, horrible place. So yeah, it wasn’t even until later when I finally believed my family, that there was a problem going on, and then they kind of helped me, they helped me a lot. We got him out of the house and my sisters and I went through the house and we found all the hiding places. Then it wasn’t until I saw financial statements, where I found that there were other women and clubs, strip clubs, and ATM charges.

The important part about all of that, was really kind of trusting my instincts. And I didn’t trust them for so long, but near the end I felt like I really got a grasp on that if you have a feeling about something, you follow it, you don’t talk it away, you don’t let someone else talk it away. Our instincts have been there with humans since the beginning you know, and they haven’t failed us yet, so just listen to it, you know?

Traci: “How do you, how do you differentiate between instinct and like feeling or emotion?”

Sarah: I feel like it’s easy to get them mixed up. When I think about instinct, I think about that deep core feeling. It’s almost like a whisper I feel like. And you almost have to like, I don’t know, like listen to it and when you have feelings mixed in with that, you have to go in and separate those things out.  I had plenty of feelings. I even had some random person reach out to me and say hey, your husband is having an affair with my wife, they met on Ashley Madison. I was horrible to this person. I wish I knew who this person was so I could apologize. I told him he was a liar, and I told him never talk to me again. I blocked him and he contacted me again through someone else, and was like “I’m not lying I’m not lying”  and I’m like leave me alone.

Traci: That’s where I think that’s the difference between the instinct and feeling, at least for me,  it’s like deep down probably knew, but feeling-wise,  “I don’t want to deal with this because it’s too hard”.

Sarah: Feeling-wise I confronted my husband about it and it was so casual, it was like “ I never, I swear on our son’s grave. I would never.”

Traci: Oh that breaks my heart.

Sarah: And I was like well that’s a pretty big thing to swear on, you know? He had totally convinced me that this wasn’t real, but deep down I was like crap, I should have listened to this guy more, he actually did say like personal things like I know what kind of car he drives, ike I know who he is personally through people, I know who you are and I just kind of like brushed it all off like, this is a lie, but at the same time deep down I knew there was something to this. 

I told my family, I told my family and they all had this look on their face, and were looking at each other and they were like, do you think it’s real? And I was like, what? No way! It’s totally not real! And they were all of course, like, and I even had a sister create an Ashley Madison account to try and find him on there. And she was like, well I found a lot of people that I do know!  But she never found him and I didn’t even find this out until way later.

Traci: Oh wow!

Sarah: At that point I wasn’t listening to anyone.

Traci: But was this before they confronted him?

Sarah: At this point they had tried to talk to me about the addiction, but I was like you’re wrong, and then I mentioned this and they were like of course it’s true and I’m like, it’s ridiculous, right? And they’re thinking this is not ridiculous! So they felt like they needed to get some hardcore evidence I could not deny. So that’s what they did. They went and found witnesses and all this stuff and they’re like, “so and so said this and this and your husband is doing this” and like I couldn’t deny it. And that point was when everything blew up.

Traci: So they did like an intervention?

Sarah: They sent one sister to talk to me, the one who I tend to listen to the most, and she talked to me, and I was like, “you’re right”. Like I couldn’t, I couldn’t deny those feelings that I had been having for all these years anymore. And it almost was, at the time it was really crushing, but once everything came out I had, it felt like all this weight was lifted off of me, because I knew I wasn’t crazy, because I was made to feel that I was crazy for so long.

Traci: That gaslighting is real, right?

Sarah: It was gaslighting absolutely. Yeah it was like the smallest things, like it was always me, I was always wrong, it was always my fault, and all of a sudden it was like, I’m not crazy, I was right! You know, it’s absolutely insane. Oh my gosh.

Traci: What do you think that tipping point was? Because it took a lot, right? But was there one last thing? Was it just your family?

Sarah: There was one last thing, and it was on a family vacation and my ex had a water bottle on the beach, he had it in the sand. And I was with my two daughters, one of them said that she was thirsty, so I picked up the water bottle and gave it to her, and she immediately spit it out. 

Traci: Oh my gosh.

Sarah: My two year old! So I took a sip, it was vodka.

Traci: Was it straight vodka??

Sarah: It was like yellow, like I don’t know why.

Traci: Like he had some kind of mixer in there? What did you say?

Sarah: I was like, what is this?

Sarah: He’s like nothing. Oh, he actually said it was gatorade, he’s like it’s gatorade! And I’m like, this isn’t gatorade.

Traci: You’re like yeah, I’m not stupid.

Sarah: Somehow he convinced me it wasn’t.

Traci: Well, right.

Sarah: Even though I knew it was vodka. And that following night I had planned a date for us in the city, cause we were like on the beach or whatever. And like the whole drive he was making me feel horrible, he was like “how dare you accuse me? This is your fault. You need to trust me. Why would I ever lie to you?” Whatever, and I felt so horrible and then he was mistreating me the whole time. We had to drive an hour to get here and then we had dinner and 20 minutes later he was like “I want to go home, I just need to go, you just have made this so hard.” 

So it was then I was like something is wrong, like so yeah, just so not right. Like I was sure it was vodka. I had a family member on that trip come to me,  and this wasn’t my family it was his family member that came to me and she said, “all of us have noticed, you know, you’re husband has been drunk this entire trip.” 

Traci: Oh my gosh, so you had both sides of the family telling you?

Sarah: I didn’t know what to say, I was absolutely just, I was just silent cause like I couldn’t defend it. I had seen it myself! And I pulled him to the side and tried to confront him, but when we got back from that trip, my sister came to me, and it was just so much and I was like, I was a mess, you know? I was just thinking what’s my future going to be like, what’s the future of the kids? I was like so sure, I hired a lawyer and was like I’m divorcing him, you know?  And then he cornered me and was all like “well if you believe in the atonement and if you believe in God, then you believe in forgiveness.  And if you don’t, then that means you’re an unfaithful person.” Or whatever and “I’m trying” and “is this all that we’re worth?” So I called my lawyer and I was like “I don’t know if I can do this, can you just do a separation agreement? Which is the same draw up as a divorce almost, but you’re not divorced, you’re just separated.

Traci: Right.

Sarah: It was 24 hours later that I called my lawyer again, and I was like “no this is a divorce.” and served him with papers. Then it was the same thing, “you’re the one walking away, you need to admit that you were also part of this downfall, and admit that this is equally your fault.  I, it wasn’t, this was not me. And I can admit to my faults of course, like sure I can be impatient, sure I can be opinionated, but like that?! I did not do that. So for a long time he tried to get me to admit that half of it was my fault.

 

Traci: But to what point? So you could stay together? Or was it after?

Sarah: This was after, he just kept trying to get me to admit it.  And I was like, I don’t have anything to admit. I was afraid for my future, it was so unknown, and I didn’t want to leave it up to chance, I’m going back to school. So the divorce was January, I was enrolled in school in February.

Traci: Wow, good for you.

Sarah: And being in school actually really helped me heal from the divorce. I felt like, I could do this. I was smart, I was Intelligent, I was doing well in my classes, and getting really good grades. Like my test scores were never below a 98% and I absolutely loved it. Like I really felt my calling was like doing medical aesthetics! So I was starting to become happier, like little by little, and I was going to a betrayal and trauma therapist, and my parents were helping me with the kids and you know the arrangement with custody and so I was like in school and my ex had the kids twice a week for dinner. went to school from 12 to 9:00 p.m. And it was hard balancing that. I had to study a lot, take care of the kids, try to be there for them, but through that all, I just felt like I kind of came out of it doing really well. And then my ex lost his job shortly after I finished school and I was like, I felt like I prepared ahead of time for that.

Traci: Yeah cause you wouldn’t have, yeah.

Sarah: If I would have just been like, I’m just going to live off of my alimony and child support, like I probably would be in trouble,you know?

Traci: Yeah, you wouldn’t have been prepared to take on all of your expenses.

Sarah: Yeah, so I can take on everything and still be ok. But now I just feel like, like things with my ex right now are surprisingly good like, just like if we don’t have to try to have conversations, it’s good.

Traci: As long as you’re not talking to each other? 

Sarah: Yeah, as long as we’re not really talking to each other. It’s more like, “what time are you picking up today?” That’s like it.

Traci: That’s actually pretty amazing, and not the standard for narcissists. I wonder,

Sarah: It took some time to get there, I think, I put the boundary up and I just did not let it cross that boundary and so it got to the point where the effort on his end was pointless, and I think it was just like, well if she’s not going to engage, like I’m, like what’s the point in trying to do this.

Traci: Did you do all of this instinctually or did someone help you learn how to deal with a narcissist?

Sarah: The therapist. My therapist helped me learn how to deal with this. And you learn to put up those walls and you don’t let anyone, you don’t let them push that wall down, you just can’t allow that.

Traci: Not even a little.

Sarah: Not even a little bit.

Traci: Cause if you give them an inch…

Sarah: Yeah, so I didn’t know how to deal with it. And I would come to my therapist and I would complain about these arguments that we’d have and she’d just be like what are you doing? I’m like, what do you mean? And she’s like, you’re just allowing him, allowing this behavior, you’re allowing him back in your life, you’re letting him make you feel like crap, and you’re not even married anymore. You don’t have to have that anymore, do you realize that you don’t have to deal with this?

Traci: Was that enlightening? 

Sarah: Yeah!

Traci: Right?

Sarah: It was!

Traci: You’re like, oh! I don’t!

Sarah: I don’t have to deal with this! And so she helped me come up with boundaries.

Traci: I love that.

Sarah: And I held onto them and my life has been freeing. It was so freeing, and I was like, you know what? And I even talked to my lawyer who’s like, if it’s not in the decree, you don’t have to deal with it. You hold to this decree, this is your life line. And in the decree it said nothing is to be discussed that is not related to the kids.

Anyone who has been through anything traumatic, there is a point where you feel nothing. You don’t feel happy, you don’t feel sad, you feel like there’s nothing. And I was stuck in that and I went to the therapist “I don’t even feel anything” and so that’s where it kind of, the tools started coming in, where the therapist taught me. She said it’s okay to be like this for a bit but you can’t stay like this. 

So, she taught me how to bring up the feelings. She said you know we have to bring it up and then we deal with it.

Traci: Ok. That’s amazing.

Sarah: It was amazing. So she would go through these exercises with me and at the beginning of the exercise I’m feeling nothing, and at the end of the exercise I’m starting to get a little bit teared up. And then the next time it’s a little bit more emotion and then I kind of go back into the numb after that, but then I’d stay open a little bit longer after each time, until eventually, all of the emotions and all of the pain was out there.

Traci: Wow.

Sarah: And now I had to deal with, like learn how to work through all that pain. And honestly it was amazing how the therapist is trained, specifically in this.

Traci: How did you find them?

Sarah: My mom’s friend went there. She went there in really bad shape and came out doing really well.

Traci: Yeah, well, I mean therapy is the solution. I think it is, for everybody.

Sarah: It was awesome, I would work on these little assignments. It was also important to, she told me to focus on more self-care, taking a minute for yourself, and doing something that you enjoy, at least one time a day. When those feelings come up, how I need to, it’s almost like a self-talk out loud.

Traci: Oh really? And it helps.

Sarah: It helped so much. So one of the exercises that really was life changing for me was when the pain would come and it’s like such crushing pain she said you either like put your arms around yourself like and give yourself a hug or put your hand on your chest and talk to yourself like you’re talking to a friend. So it would be like, “anyone would feel like this if they went through what you went through”. So it’s almost like you’re talking to someone else, but you’re really talking to yourself and you kind of talk about like why it’s okay to be feeling like this yeah and it’s like pretty much all it was. It took like two minutes, and it went from crying all night to being able to get my feelings and process within a few minutes. 

Traci: Wow.

Sarah: And by consistently doing that, writing letters to myself in my journal, like there are also specific topics and things that I was told to journal about. She also brought in art and things like that for me to look through.  One of them was, she told me to find a door. A door that opens up to something, like an art piece. So I found this painting, it was like a dry, cracked desert and there was a door in the middle, and the door was open halfway to a field of flowers. So she told me to explain to her what this meant to me and how it related to maybe how I want to be. And I felt, I said you know I feel like my life is this desert right now. It’s dead and sad, there’s no color, there’s no life but I see into the door of what I want and what I want my life to be, and how beautiful and fresh and happy, and that was really profound to me because I was feeling like I was walking toward that door, I wasn’t in it yet.

Traci: But you knew…you could see it…there was a solution.

Sarah: I was starting to see what I wanted my life to be and how I didn’t want to be stuck in this.  And so it was like these amazing things that this therapist did for me to help me just see better. You have to be open to and you have to be willing to let things go.

I am a religious person and so that also made a difference for me and everyone recovers differently but having faith that things that can get better and things can change, and if we just persevere and keep pushing through it, you know? Not allowing these things that have happened to us and in our lives to define us. They change us, but I feel like we kind of have a say in how it changes us, in some ways.

So I do have a cousin that is a therapist and he works specifically in trauma, at a rehab center. And he would have people come in and have had the most horrific things happen in their lives.  And after this whole thing came out, he came to me and is like, I’m going to teach you something that I use for my patients. And it was like a map almost. So in the middle you draw a circle and in it you would write something. You know you don’t start with a big horrible thing, you start with something that’s a problem. And from there it was like you kind of like spider out and create these like little things, like what came from this? Fear, and then from there you go, ok what came from the fear? until eventually you’re spread out so far, that at least one good thing has come from it.

So I started doing those within you know this window of when I’m in therapy and recovery and going to school, and yeah so it helped me find the good things. My divorce has made me a stronger person, you know? I feel more independent, I don’t feel like I have to depend on a man, you know?

Of course I want to be with someone. I want to be with a good man that loves me and loves my kids, and we make each other happy, and we respect each other, we’re honest and there’s no lying, no scheming there’s no manipulating. I want that, but I also feel like I’m happy on my own as well. And I think that was also an important thing that I told myself, it’s like, you know what, I need to be happy all on my own before I start talking to men. Before I even start going on a date. You know? The last thing I want to do is bring all of this mess that has not been dealt with, into another relationship and just destroy that one.

Traci: With the betrayal/trauma therapy, has she helped you through learning how to trust again? Just curious.

Sarah: Yes, she absolutely has. And that was a big fear of mine. 

Traci: Yeah, opening yourself up again.

Sarah: I don’t know how I’m ever going to trust anyone again. How do I do that?  And my therapist said well, you trust yourself first. She even said, if you’re in a relationship and you feel something’s off, you don’t even need to know what it is, you just leave. So you don’t, you don’t have to find out. If something’s off, something’s off, and it will always be off. Not to say communicating isn’t important, you know there’s misunderstandings, but there’s like a vibe, you know? Like there’s a, something that doesn’t feel right. 

When you’re within a marriage that’s bad, especially when you have kids, you think, what am I doing to my kids by leaving their father? 

Traci: Especially if he throws it in your face because he knows you love your kids.

Sarah:  Absolutely. Yeah they use it against you. You’re tearing the family apart, you’re the one that destroyed the family.  You know how many times I’ve been told that? You know, the truth is, your kids are going to see if you’re in a bad marriage, your kids are gonna see it.  You can try to hide it, but they’re still going to see it.

Traci: They know more than you think.

Sarah:  Spiritually they can feel it. They don’t even need to hear it, or hear you argue, they can still feel there’s something wrong.

Traci: When you’re in that negative space and even if, like you said, even if the kids don’t hear fighting, even if they aren’t aware, if you are broken, you can’t help them. You’re in a better place now, you’re a better Mom, so you gotta let go of that guilt, right?

Sarah: For a while there I was so depressed, I like was sleeping all the time, I couldn’t keep my eyes open, not realizing, that I was like depressed, and that’s like a sign of depression, and then I was super suicidal, and I went to my husband for help and he didn’t care. He turned it around and said, “well I’m depressed, what about me?”

Traci: He made it about himself?

Sarah: I was just considering killing myself 5 minutes ago. I was going to do it. I came to you for help because I’m scared and you don’t care? And I know that my kids probably saw that light out of me because I was just basically like a walking zombie for a while there. There was just something was so wrong in my home and I wasn’t sure what it was but it still had this huge impact on me and I was in such a horrible dark place and I couldn’t be there for the kids like I could be, you know, like emotionally. I didn’t want to play with them, I was too sad. You know I don’t even want to go to my own house, cause during the day I would go to my mom’s house to hang out and then I’d just start crying on my way back home, not knowing why I didn’t want to go back to my own house.

Traci: Wow

Sarah: And I know that my kids saw that depression. I know that they saw it, and the people around me saw it, like there was something wrong with me. I just like, they said even I just looked different.

Traci: What would have happened if you had stayed there?

Sarah: I don’t know. I really don’t know. It was so bad, I was so unhappy and that was before anything even came out.

Traci: Yeah, you didn’t know, but you knew.

Sarah: My spirit new there was so much wrong. You know and plus I was being treated so horribly. And I felt everything going wrong was my doing. And I felt like I couldn’t live with myself because I was causing all these problems, you know? Every time we’d fight it was my fault and so it’s, I don’t know what, like I couldn’t survive there, you know? Because there was one point where I looked at my husband and he had just teared me apart, and I remember thinking I don’t know who this person is anymore. Like who is this person? This is not the man I married.  And I also thought how am I going to do this the rest of my life? 

But now I have the opportunity to create a new one with a better man, a good man.

Traci: So what are you looking for?

Sarah: In a man?

Traci: Yeah, just curious.

Sarah: Someone nice? I think you can genuinely see if someone is a kind person or if they’re just really good at talking like they are.

Traci: So what’s the difference?

Sarah: I feel like I’ve really just kind of seen it, in some people. I think the difference, I think for a while, I think a narcissist can hide it. 

Traci: Oh yeah, they’re really good.

Sarah: They’re really good at being a nice person, and doing nice things for you, but it will stop when they think they have you. But I think just the way they talk about people, the way they talk to you. You know,I, I don’t like being made fun of. If someone tries to make fun of me, I don’t, I’m not going to talk to them again, you know?  I think there’s a difference between like teasing a little bit and then like actually making fun of you, and I’ve run into that and I’m like, hmm, yeah, no thanks.

I think just a level of respect. And so, like a kind person, someone that obviously loves kids. I do want someone with a good job, they don’t need to be rich, but they need to have a good job, you know something like, I just don’t want to have to worry about that. And looks, you know, it’s not as important as it used to be, or important.

Traci: But you want to be attracted to them?

Sarah: There definitely has to be an attraction, they have to smell right.

Traci: There you go, that’s, the pheromones plus taking care of themselves, right?

Sarah: Yes, they just have their life together, they, you know, personal hygiene, they’re kind and they’re nice, they have a good job, they want to 

Yes yes they yes they see me they want to be with me they want to spend time with me you know like they don’t I don’t want to be in a situation again where the person I’m with their friends are more important than me yeah that really sucks, always feeling like sports and friends are the priority. I want to be the priority, I want my kids to be the priority.

Traci: You want a family.

Sarah: Yeah, on the weekends you want to hang out with me, you don’t want to be gone every single weekend. I think it will definitely take time, but I think it’ll work out.

Traci: I think so. I haven’t even asked you about your work and your business and all of that, so just, if you wanna give me a little bit of that.

Sarah: Yeah, so I’m a master esthetician, and absolutely love it. Love taking care of skin, like acne is my favorite thing in the world, I just love to fix it. So right now, I’m building a studio, it’s really more of a skin-type clinic, you know, where I treat conditions and also have, you know, relaxing facials and stuff. So that’s in the process right now. It’ll probably be done in two months, I would say. For the time being, I have been working in a private club which is really beautiful and I do love my co-workers, everyone is sweet, it’s a great environment. It’s good to have some field experience and all of that, so I think it’ll only benefit my business in the end.  

Traci: So where do you see yourself in 5 years?

Sarah: Working full time with just my business, hopefully I have a full clientele. On my studio, above it, it’s going to be like, almost like a classroom 

Traci: Oh, okay!

Sarah: And so I want, I have lots of ideas of things that I want to do, classes I want to teach, for skincare. So it’s going to be awesome. I want to do parties, bachelorette parties, you know, groups come and they get mini-facials, like it can be like a whole thing. Yeah, so I have lots of ideas to go along with just treating people’s skin, anti-aging, fixing people’s acne scars, yeah so I think it will be, I think it’s going to be good in the end. Doing it as a single mom is a challenge for sure, but I think it’s absolutely realistic to, like if you’re a single mom, you’ve got kids and you’re divorced and just putting your own life back together, to start your own business. 

Traci: Oh, yeah, yeah!

Sarah:I think you definitely have to be smart about it. 

Traci: Do it the right way.

Sara: You have to do it the right way, like is what you’re wanting to do as a business something that can actually create revenue? Like is it something that is needed? Like I think it’s easy to come up with an idea to start a business, but 

Traci: It could be anything but you’ve got to do yeah but you’ve got to do it smart, right?

Sarah: You’ve got to do it smart, like if you need extra training like please get extra training. Like, continued education is a huge deal. I’m still reading textbooks, reading the new studies that are coming out on skincare, you know what products are working and not working, which ones have the best clinical trials, you know?

Traci: Well yeah, especially with all of that, there’s probably new stuff coming out all the time, right?

Sarah: There are so many skin care lines. But I think business will eventually come. 

Traci: Well and you’re not even open yet, so it’s hard to, I’m sure,

Sarah: I’m, of course, there’s days where I doubt myself, like, I’m gonna fail, no one is going to book an appointment with me, you know? And then other days I really feel like, you know, this is totally gonna work! Next day I’m crying again.

Traci: All entrepreneurs and business owners have that, the days where you feel confident and then something happens,

Sarah: And then you doubt yourself again.

Traci: Yeah.

Sarah:I mean it’s definitely another one of those, you don’t see what’s gonna happen in the future, you just have to have faith that it’s gonna work out.

Traci: Cause if you could, you would see how amazing it’s going to be. 

Sarah: And I just have to look at it and be like, I’m not paying rent on this space, all of my equipment is paid off, 

Traci: You’re in a good spot.

Sarah: I’m in a good spot. I don’t have to bring in a ton of product, I can drop ship to people, so I don’t have to hold on to a bunch of product. I mean, I am in a place where it’s like, stop freaking out, you’re not going to get evicted, you know? But also, I just want to provide for the kids, I want to create a good life for them, I want to create a good life for me, you know? I want to feel fulfilled, I want to feel successful, all these things, it’s just a journey and it all can’t happen at once. It’s a lifelong battle I think.

Traci: What do you want to tell the woman who’s on the verge of walking out the door? What do you want to tell her?

Sarah: Believe in yourself, trust yourself. I’ve said this before,I’ll say it again, it’s better to be happy and alone than miserable and married. The unknown is scary, but sometimes the unknown, a lot of times the unknown is better. It’s better than where you are. 

Traci: Oh that’s great, well thank you so much for your time.

Sarah: Yay, thank you so much. This has been awesome, loved it.

Traci: You gotta come back!

Sarah: Yes!